Learning Outcomes Leaders 009 | Jennifer Bielman

Welcome to Learning Outcomes Leaders.

In this episode, we're joined by Jennifer Bielman, Administrative Coordinator at Riverside City College, to discuss an often overlooked equity issue, how physical classroom environment can create barriers for students of size.

We also take a deep dive into the future of AI regulation and how to balance academic integrity with student support.

Let's get into the episode.

Transcript

Speaker: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Learning Outcomes Leaders, brought to you by Genio. I'm James and I'm Scott. And on this podcast, you'll hear professionals who can talk and there and done it. We'll discuss some of their projects, and explore the most helped to improve and elevate In this episode, we'll talk to Jennifer Bielman, Administrative at Riverside City College, about an often overlooked equity issue, how physical classroom environment can create barriers for students of size. We also take a deep dive into the to balance academic integrity find out more. Let's get into the episode.

Speaker 1: 0:49

So. Hey, Jennifer. Uh, really, really lovely to to meet you and have you on the podcast. Um, as we start all of these, uh, all of these podcasts, we start with a very particular question and we are so interested about your origin story. So if you could tell us a little education and any formative had, which, uh, motivated the

Speaker 3: 1:20

Okay. Yeah. Great. Thank you so much for having me. This is my first podcast, so I'm we go from here. Um, my origin story. Well, um, I kind of grew up not And so I was like, when I'm going to stick with business. Business is somewhat general, Can kind of go into different And so I got my Bachelor's from um, in business. Um, and then I'm like, okay, You know, graduated during the downturn in the United States 2009, kind of hard to find anything. So I started going back to um, and, uh, and I started because I was like, okay, a And I just found out that I So I started working at, um, Riverside Community College. So they're both community And there it just, there was students, even though I was a really had a passion to work them navigate like student And I'm like, maybe this is my But it was really, really hard It's really actually hard to start getting into actually getting hired in higher education. So I continued my education, company for some time. Um, became a manager, but I go back and see what it was like full time employee. So, um, I, uh, applied on and um, that's where Riverside wanted to, um, first, I really There was these, um, little, streets that I actually now live old houses like mine's nineteen thought, okay, that's three RCC is like, you know, it's Um, and then just in general, higher education, um, has, uh, especially RCC, when I researched it had a lot of great benefits, you know, very good pay. Um, and that's something we look You know, to make sure that we're living, you know, um, you know, quality of life and, um, and so on and off a little under ten years. I applied, you know, not And I finally, finally got a job for business Services. Not my most ideal job, but foot in the door. And again, business services was And so I started there. And then from there, I just my It was it was just the things I community colleges was even Um, I was given opportunities to council work and that's our um, we get to be part of the mixture of classified usually on most committees. And when I say classified, I And that's how we refer to It's something that California has, it's a word that we now use. And, um, and I was just like, again, like my eyes open to the possibilities of how I could be involved. I didn't realize I could do something other than my actual job. And that's what it was like. And from there, um, um I from that opportunities, um, one of the, the key opportunities that I, I really appreciated was um, being part of the equity minded learning Institute. Um, there I found my passion for, um, making sure that, that we're providing services for students, you know, and make sure with the equity lens, right, that we're serving all students in the way that they need in their particular journeys. Um, it's funny from there, um, gotten my MBA kind of during I'm like, okay, I'll go back. Everybody was like, go back, go And then from there though, I So for this institute, right? It was a year long institute and we learned just a variety of topics, but everything with an equity lens. And I kind of found my passion, Um, and it was about, um, seating equity for students of size. It's not something commonly But it is an equity and access Um, and so I started doing research and I found out a lot of information. First of all, it's not very, not but there's, and there's very but some things are on the And I'm like, oh, this is a So I did my little end of the year presentation, and I wasn't sure how it was going to be received because it's a very unique, somewhat sensitive topic. And, um, it just, I mean, the the amount of people said we even as faculty, what can we do? And so it was a really good journey of, um, of my actually I'm a year and a half in, I have another year and a half and my dissertations about that specific topic. And I just wrote my chapter one. So I'm very excited. So that's kind of my personal And then through that council conferences and I was like, I I know I'm just classified You know, you see administrators often classified professionals. And I finally got to go to them. And I just was amazed. I was just so excited. I went to all different kinds, Institute, the California College League of California. I mean, I went to so many was so excited. And every time I'd come back, This person had a great We should do something with it. And everybody's like, you really I'm like, that's the whole point I mean, you should be able to it at your college. Well, there's one presentation the start of it, right? Especially generative AI. And that, again, my horizons had been open and I'm like, this is amazing. So I brought it back and they're No one's really talking about You need to present on it. And so I put something together, Everyone was ecstatic. Like, oh my gosh, we're not It's kind of like a secret thing we're not really supposed to use. And I'm like, no, no, totally We should, we need to start And, um, and that kind of led to conferences I went to. And now I've been doing that for And that's my other avenue of because it's such an important to be talking about because it's And there's goods and bads. I'm not saying it's all fairy tales and, you know, rainbows and stuff like that, but it is very important that we talk about it. Um, because it'll be our lives So that's kind of my two at my introduction of getting and also getting my education.

Speaker 2: 8:16

Yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's where we met myself and Jennifer met at a where, where I went to one of was really amazing actually to personal standpoint, because and education a lot. It's a fundamental part of our But being in a room with people sort of understand what AI is future, the pros as well as the that we're going to have. It was really it was a really fascinating conversation to be a part of that you were facilitating. So yeah, I, I really enjoyed Scott, did you have a question? Um, before I jump into anything

Speaker 1: 9:01

Yeah, you, you really, you Um, when you mentioned, um, about your work, about, uh, students of size and like, that's super interesting because we, we do a lot of work, obviously supporting students from lots of different backgrounds, um, which have many different, many different struggles. Um, we do a lot of work into like what the new majority learner is and how like non-traditional learners have changed. I'd love to hear a little bit into students of science.

Speaker 3: 9:32

Yeah. So, um, while an MLI, which is the equity Minded Learning Institute, um, that was when I first started the research and um, I just finding out how much it affects student success. And it's, first of all, it's a, of emotional journey when doing student of size for the majority And you know, you the feeling So there's not much I can do. Not everything can be Right. But we know now that we aspects of students. Um, no matter what, you know, And it's something that is a I mean, when doing research, States, um, like forty eight I'm not exactly remembering the statistics, but somewhere around there is that people are considered obese or overweight is more like sixty something percent. And in not saying it's a good or that has happened. It is It is a fact. It is something that we deal that it's, you know, metabolic it may be, physical, there's a And so beyond the health part of it, it is something that we're seeing in our population, um, especially in community colleges and especially disproportionately amongst our students of color, you know what I mean? So we're seeing that even their And so when we think about going talking about, we've heard desks or slate desks, I've heard where the desk is attached to see that at RCC, and I see that that I've talked to. Um, and that is just not a learning in general. One, that discomfort even for The second for people that can't I per my personal journey is out my seat and say, okay, do know, a compliant seat that I But then I'm kind of in the front of the seat and nobody's going to watch me as someone that can't fit in those seats or if you can, but then you're uncomfortable and you're, you're focusing on the physical part of you being there instead of the education part. And that's why it's such an part of that learning. And there is that flexible seating, hybrid seating that's coming out. But a lot of times student size are not considered when it comes to that. You know, I mean, it's they, you know, need movement, right? Be able to cross your legs, There's certain parts, but not, they're so uncomfortable for me So, um, it's just something we need to think about because it's a population that we're not talking about. And, and it's kind of like a, a silent problem because it's an uncomfortable problem. It's something kind of hard to Like the word fat is considered studies, there's literally a called fat studies, because it's need to accept that it's not And it's something we need to it's disproportionately their success in college. We're talking about dropping out because of their uncomfortability. We're talking about being People feel that sometimes fat people are lazy or things like that. They're preconceived notions. So again, it's really ingrained know, classroom experience don't realize it. That was what the faculty came to me and said, thank you so much. I, it wasn't even something I

Speaker 2: 13:00

It's really interesting when you, when you talk about that because as Scott mentioned, we talk about non-traditional students being this new majority of, of learners, particularly in, in community colleges that are full of first generation students, ESL learners and things. But this seemed like another majority when it is, you know, are being classified as as This is something that is affecting most students on campus. And you mentioned that that starting to come out or in in I wondered, is there sort of any happening at the moment that is outcomes and stress and drop out Or is that some of the work that at to be able to provide that

Speaker 3: 13:49

There is very few. There are some. There are some that connect, um, especially as a student of size their success in class, their success in group projects, their teacher and every aspect of it. Um, but it's kind of very Um, after my research, I had, little more quantitative, I approach and really get the So my, my plan is to interview because we've all experienced person of size. Um, and to figure out, you know, What was your experiences? What are something maybe that about it, that you never really Because at the time it was a Um, because it was, it's a very like other conversations may be, that, um, we tended to go, well, You know what I mean? That's, that's your problem. You kind of did it to yourself. That's, that's the feeling that and no matter the background of We're here to accommodate We're here to make sure they're So it's something we need to consider, especially when it comes to access um, and inclusion. Right. Um, because again, even thinking other students think of that just put a group together. Guess what? I was not often picked for a So that sometimes is maybe not little, um, uh, walk around and, you know, might be biology That's great. But what about mobility issues? You know, and things like that. Just things to consider, as classified, remembering that even when it comes to in my going to events and it's in a the classroom to see if there's And sometimes there's not. And so I know if I'm going to whatever it may be, I'm either kind of a comment. You know, I have to ask if a So I have to do all this prep work that no one's ever really thought about. Um, and then there's other classrooms that have seating that's available for everybody that, that in general can accommodate the majority because it's very hard to accommodate everybody. Um, but at least the majority. Um, so it's just, you know, putting in our brains that no

Speaker 1: 16:13

I is the reason why it interests me, interests me a lot is because I think like, I'm, I, I'm a, I was a first gen graduate. I have dyslexia and I, I think like retention, persistence for much underlying stigma or shame not a traditional student. Whereas we know now that like students are not traditional shame and stigma there that I shouldn't be here. And like, I, I've never really besides feeling that, feeling Um, so that's super interesting. What like, what are you doing? Like what, what's the challenge in, in getting people to listen to you and to say that like, this is a, this is a thing, this is a thing we should be talking about. We should be addressing what are

Speaker 3: 17:10

So just to kind of go back a little bit, once I completed my that my little presentation about that. And, you know, in essence, I said like, you know, seating for everybody, right. Um, um, there's a lot of take you on the road. Let's have you present on our Right. Um, um, present to, you know, deans and stuff like that. And so it kind of took the show the, the challenges was just the cohort, you know, colleagues because we were talking about Right? We were talking about acceptance and student outcomes related to that equity lens, but I wasn't sure how everybody else was going to really, you know, accept it how not accept it, but receive it. Let me let me say, I wasn't sure how everybody was going to receive it. And so going on that I, I got really positive, um, um, responses, but there was some of that silence. I don't know what to do with So there's that challenge of, okay, it's a problem, what can we do? And then there's a challenge of, So I had one thing that said, I Thank you so much for making What do we need to do? Go talk to the Director of Let's find some funding. Let's change seating, blah blah. And that's a great idea. And that's a great I'm so happy they're enthusiastic, but it's not realistic. It's not instantaneous because then we're talking about, um, you know, FTEs so we're talking about students and seats, how much money we're getting from, um, our, our government, uh, related to how many students we can educate. Right. And so when we talk about when they're doing high flex and want to maintain the amount of If we're talking about a company, we need to talk about what that looks like for students of size, because if we lose seats, we lose some of that funding. So there's those complications implementation of this, right? So there's going to be There's going to be conversations with the Vice President of business services and conversations with students, you know, academic affairs when it comes to FTEs and maintaining that. And what does that look like? Maybe that changes, you know, in now, that whole thing changes, good marker, a measure, right? Because look what it's doing. It's not allowing us to So the challenge is, what are we That's, that's where I'm I don't want to do have this presentation that I present to everybody. And then getting my dissertation or writing my dissertation on it, getting a degree on it, and then it just nothing happens with it. I want something to happen. So the challenge is what can be And those are a lot of have to happen in the future. I hope to be involved. I hope to honestly, this would I mean, AI is super important involved in it, but this would bring around to the next set of it's important because again, just not something a lot of And so that'll be the challenge actually look like?

Speaker 2: 20:13

It's super interesting that you I've been having a lot of conversations with people recently about, you know, these the creation of Hyflex classrooms and how we make students online feel included and part of the student experience. But actually what you're saying students that are in the in traditionally look at and say, having the best traditional might be the students that are in, in the classroom. And that the, the point of, you know, well, if we change the, the infrastructure inside, well, that might mean that we're losing seats in, in the classroom. That's going to be a really fine And to get that funding, traditionally, if we look at, um, changing furniture in a classroom, there's often funding through the ADA for a disability. But if something isn't classified as an accommodation, where can we find that money from? So it's a really interesting dilemma, I guess in, in, in that sense. And I wonder if if you've sort of had any experience of or heard anything around sort of high flex. Is that something that that comfortable with online learning Is there sort of a push for, um, more remote learning or is it actually the, that push of we want to make sure that that equity of access is, is on campus. I want to be on campus. I want to feel like I'm able to peers and things like that. Have you sort of had any conversations or experiences with that?

Speaker 3: 21:42

Not as much I did, um, I did email, I of our, um, classified That's how I got my, some of my data and the data was very overwhelming. Um, you know, obviously when don't really know how many you know, are going to really, show that I'm right. I want the data to show what's So I thought, you know, it might because of course it's a And so it's evident in my don't know what it's like, but the, the data was overwhelming a real problem. And, and it affects events I go school and, and how I choose to So I don't have as much data on. Especially like online compared Um, I know that in general, when talking about student data that, you know, online was preferred in general, but then I've also seen a wave of we really need to get back to the classroom because we have these other students that are like, this is how I learn, which I completely understand. I was not an online learner. It was really hard for me to And now I'm so used to it. It's like, now I can't even imagine going back to the classroom. But, um, but, um, but before I way to learn, right? And, but we learned something Um, so I don't have a lot of students are talking about, it comes to that. I know that our hyflex at RCC is A lot more like where you can be remote and also in class at the same time. And you know, there's some functionality problems and some things work and some things don't. Now we have the digital whiteboards and some people like us, people don't because now we got size and visually and there's you can't change up and down. And now we have people that are There's, there's always going to it's, it is hard. It's acceptable to say it's hard It's very hard to think of every and choice that we make. Um, and even when it comes to, and getting them involved in not a protected class. It's a protected class is any obese or overweight, but not So that's also that that part of Now we also have, you know, the that's saying it is a disease. It's classified as a disease. But again, there's that stigma of, um, you know, even research when it comes to people with obesity. And we're talking about those, what is the GLP and all the ozempic and all the things out there? You know, we're starting to What does it mean for someone to be overweight and what does it really take for someone to, to, you know what I mean to address it, right? Um, but, um, so I'm excited to because it's, I feel like we're going to learn more about it this is on the wayside. You know, it's, it's kind of Um, but, um, but I know that online has been a huge It's a anxiety I no longer have getting my education at least. Um, and so, and it's not even when it was happening. I was thinking about the learning, the, the I won't be have access to the teacher and blah, blah. And we figured those things out hybrid and things like that. Um but um, but the physical part clicked to me like, oh, this is I'm not thinking about how I I'm not thinking about, am I I'm not thinking about? Um, you know what I mean? Like getting to class early and It just completely changed my And without even realizing it until starting this, this research.

Speaker 2: 25:27

That's yeah. That's fantastic. I think one of the, the reasons fantastic talk, um, with who has done a lot of research and it was the, the link between student feels and then their, retaining at the, at the, at the And the, the piece of work that they did was find out that if a student goes to one sport event, whether that be a football game, basketball, volleyball, it didn't matter. As long as they went to one more likely to persist at the sense of belonging. And that was the best way to do To do that, you have to be on You have to feel part of that. And I think that that sort of in a lot of different ways. And I know I, I feel a lot more belonging to, to a company or to anything when I'm there in person. And so being able to make feel like they belong, not like to be changed because of them. Can is I think is so, so important for, um, for those students, I guess if you were to sort of look at other people at another institution that might want to sort of start this sort of project to start looking into this, to start researching what, what sort of, um, conversations would they need to have on, on campus? What, what, you know, what would start those conversations about? Is this something that we need And then how do we address that

Speaker 3: 27:07

Well, and that's kind of a want to involve the students, that some students might not That that this might be an So there's a delicate part of really say, what's the right Um, if someone came to honestly, like I found out that when I first got hired, there was conversation with my boss with someone else saying, hey, should I address any kind of seating, any kind of special seating she might need? Right. And they're like, yeah, no, It's fair. You know, there's any kind of Is there any kind of My boss never had that don't fault him for that at all But I, I get it, I understand reacted if I was asked. Maybe someone else wasn't going I know for me I'm okay with So there's that aspect of being sensitive and trying to figure out like your environment, your, your, your, you know, what your culture is. And if that's something that you So one is including either students or people, even people of size that have experienced this to begin with in the conversations, you know, I mean, if you're going to talk about any kind of facilities, um, especially within the classroom being changed or in event spaces, right? We have like, you know, stadium auditoriums or whatever it is. And then those even being uncomfortable or things like that, right? Or being predetermined in size all that stuff. Um, we need to start, if we're these other perspectives of people absorb information. This is just another aspect we So if we're going to have a things that we should consider. This is how people learn visual, uh, um, people that have, you may give them attention deficit, This is the other marker that that we need to put on there and then figure out how, how we're going to include this perspective. Because to be honest, it is very unique to people that have this situation. And so it is going to have to be someone that has lived this experience. That's but again, it's that sensitivity of how to include it. But we're also, you know, we're we're higher education. We talk about a lot of know what I mean? And, and things that have become normalized for us that you would never talk about in a private sector, right? And so this is the time to do it

Speaker 1: 29:40

That's, I think that's the big Is it's, it's, it's having the conversation is, is the first step to, to, to, to making some change or making people listen is to just, just saying something, just, just speaking up. I'm gonna, I'm going to take a kind of based on what you've Um, but so you, uh, sorry, you, you, you, you have, um, business skills, right? Um, business education. I'm really interesting transferable skills, how have business skills to having like higher education and then making higher education as well.

Speaker 3: 30:27

Oh my gosh, that's a good Um, I guess I never really Um, there's a lot of strategy in There's a lot of strategy even Um, um, because I really want to make sure that I'm thinking about as many perspectives as I can so that when I am communicating that it's, it's something that anybody can to receive. You know what I mean? There's, there's that aspect of strategy and how, um, we're So that, uh, that what I'm saying is taking as an important topic because as a classified professional, I will be super honest and personally in our college and I've seen a lot of community colleges just because I've been to conferences with specifically classified. Um, we're a little bit on the you know what I mean? We, you know, we got kind of faculty and students up here, administration and then classified. And so sometimes our voices are not at the table. Now, I will say specifically, RCC has done great leaps of making sure to include us a lot more, seeing that that was a problem, right? That was an inequity for a certain particular employee group. And so they have gone above and beyond to really include us and to start seeing us as more of an equal. But that's just a reality of say for universities since I But, um, with that aspect, I have been risen and our important because what I've been That is us. We are the operations. And yes, classroom is so We could not have a higher We couldn't be part of higher classroom and faculty. But guess what? We couldn't have it without the So when it comes to even being that strategic, that that how I communicate when it comes to, hey, see this process, I do this every day. And now you created a new without any of our input. How do you think that's going to It's not going to be great. You mean because I've seen it And even though we're all trying to to all listen to us, we still get that pushback of, hey, you're classified. I don't think you understand. You know, we're kind of up here. We know how it's going to work. I'm like, okay, go ahead and Oh, five months later, oh, it's Okay, here's how you should do So and I'm not trying to say that I know better than anybody else. I'm saying that when it comes to especially within my job. I know how it should be done. I know what it looks like. I have that perspective of people coming to me with the problems, right? People coming to me with with, I found people coming to me Can you train me? Can you help me? And that's something I've always prided myself on is becoming that trainer, that mentor, because I feel like in a lot of the few jobs that I've had, um, that's something that was always lacking. Someone really like who can I call when I have this question and, you know, I want to be that person because I don't want anybody to feel the way that I felt when it came to starting, you know, my career, especially in higher education, when I feel like the stakes felt so much higher. I mean, this is a student Um, so, um, through that, I feel like I, because of one, the best way I can communicate, the best way I can, um, present the facts present, make sure I make my case right. I'm not coming here with emotion but I'm saying I'm not coming how I feel. This is here's the facts. Here's, here's here's what the Here I'll have letters full of people saying, hey, here's the problems. Please don't continue this. We need to fix this before we do Here's what students have been experience because again, we get those stories. We're the ones that get those And so, um, that is really, um, that I've used is try to elevate finding a strategy on how to do So they understand like, oh, no, We need yeah. I'm like, yeah, you do just like you need the students perspective. We now, a lot of the classified I was a student of RCC and stuff But even having the current students perspective is important. And in our participatory committees, we have students in important that we're listening That's a winning strategy to me. So just that aspect, I think, is you ask that question, because But that's kind of what came to present something so that that take acceptance that, oh, maybe this is the right way. And, and guess what? Sometimes I'm wrong. That's okay too. Sometimes I'm like, I only know And you have this, this kind of all the things. I know this part of it and But this part of it is still

Speaker 1: 35:19

But it's actually super So me, me and me and James are Genio as well as, as well as Um, so we're arguably business Um, and I see so many transferable skills, um, that we can use. And when we have these conversations within, within education. So that's why I was super you use, you have used those, instance, for rest when anybody We are always the first to say, let us talk to other people about Genio. So you can do your job. And we can and we can focus. So you can focus on your job and Um, and I think sharing those skills with people and helping people learn those skills and, and knowing that they're available is, is really, really useful. Can I ask anybody, what would you, what would you say to anybody who was trying to make the switch and trying to move into higher education for the first time? What what advice would you give

Speaker 3: 36:24

Um, persistence. Don't give up. I've had a lot of people where praises of higher education. I really do because I just think career to, to, to, to be a part helping people like you see it And I don't have a super student But in all my committee work, I how our initiatives and our successful and become better for But I've had people and friends, for this and blah, blah. And they're like, oh, um, I And then like, so I'm not going to ever, ever, ever, ever do it again. I'm like, no, no, that is, I'm I don't know if it's common you right now in California, That is common. It took me ten years. You cannot use this one want to do it again. One that just persistence of of want to do, please continue You know, a lot of times there's a lot of things in the background. We don't know why and what So don't take that as a personal gotten rejected the first time. And guess what? All the positions I applied to money, a lot more of the kind of And this was a little more And I took a chance. And there you go, I got it. So like, you know, I got the one of out of all of them, probably Um, the other thing is, is that if, if I do personally feel that it is not just a job, we, we are literally. Yeah, that's the hard part. I think I would recommend that to go to work and leave and to the company wherever it may be. And that's fine. That is a, I'm not saying that's higher education, that's really your job, right? Because this is about student This is about students for a career, preparing them for Right? Um, especially in community transition of high school still transferring to a university or Um, but it is, it is, it is, it It's, it's people work, you know, it's, it's, it's very much even a step above beyond customer service, because that one interaction is not going to end just because they leave there. It's going to be continuous over And one bad experience could literally have them dropping out. We have heard stories like I was in admissions records, and they were just kind of rude and I wasn't sure. And I'm not saying are people, and I just felt like I just And I just, I gave up, I just stopped trying, you know what I mean? The application process was I couldn't find anybody to help And it might be that or a It was the wrong information. And now I have another whole I have to go because of bad And I just felt like I need to And then life happens, right? There's there's all different experiences can mean literally So this is very much a more I think that I, every time I go just a job for me. It's literally changing people's And so if you want to work in that into perspective, because you to to remove that emotional, really is part of it because and it's hard. It's, it's, I mean, even for me, know why I keep doing it to school for things and I'm like, And then I leave. I'm like, I really love that. I should do it again, you know But when I have those bad experiences, it's really demoralizing. It's really hard to pick myself So my big thing is please know you get into higher education, more than a job, especially for rest of their lives.

Speaker 2: 40:22

We, we find that a lot. Um, obviously our job not education institution itself, something that's going to try And we, me and Scott have this know, we're acutely aware of the higher education can have on, on something on campus, you know, the cafeteria is slightly rude It puts them off their off They're not concentrating in They then miss one small, tiny And in an exam and things like and the sort of the, the, the first in higher education, I most other, um, sectors. And we love that we, we get to build fantastic relationships with, with staff and students across, um, across higher education more than you would in other sectors. I think that's, it's quite a nice thing to, to end on, I think in that, that message of if you want to be in higher ed, you need to love people and you need to love, you know, supporting people, um, in in that sense. Um, Jennifer, this has been a really, really brilliant conversation. You really opened our eyes to, uh, to new challenges that students face. Um, a really, you know, a that's, that's an experience of And so we really appreciate you Um, I'm sure we'd love to have Um, again, once you've, you've finished this, this research piece, we'd love to hear about, you know, your findings and some of that qualitative research that you've, um, that you'll have gathered. Um, so please do come back, um, findings and I'm sure we'll be talking about this over the Jennifer, thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 42:20

Thank you so much. I really appreciate the experience and being able to kind of shine a light on something that's not often talked about. So I appreciate, um, your And, and, you know, the way the conversation went felt very natural. And I appreciated your, you know, the comfort that you gave me in being able to talk about something so personal, but also that's should be public and should be something that we talk about. So thank you again so much. It was a great experience and I definitely will be back once all my all my research is done and I have some something else we can do and some like initiatives that we need to start implementing.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Absolutely. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 42:55

Thank you.

Speaker: 42:58

And that's a wrap. Thank you so much for joining us We hope you found the conversation valuable and that you gave you some ideas for how you can elevate your own student experience. Don't forget to hit that get your podcasts so you never Until next time, have an amazing